Picture: Michael Wharley
CELINDE SCHOENMAKER is best known for playing big roles in big West End shows – notably and most famously Fantine in Les Misérables (2013, her West End debut, and again in 2014) and Christine in The Phantom of the Opera (2015-17). But she’s about to open in one of London’s smaller houses, the Menier Chocolate Factory, as Jenny Lind alongside leading man Marcus Brigstocke in Barnum, the 1980 musical by Cy Coleman (music), Michael Stewart (lyrics) and Mark Bramble (book).
Celinde is arguably playing to type, cast as she is in the role of the (real life) Swedish opera singer. “I’m usually either German or Russian,” she laughs when talking about her career options in English-language productions.
She is, though, none of the above, being in fact born in Dordrecht in the Netherlands. As might be hinted at in her natural, only-just discernible accent, she has since lived in the USA and now England, which she calls home and where she lives with her boyfriend and fellow musical theatre star Richard Fleeshman.
Barnum is the biographical musical set during the peak of the American showman’s career, and shines the spotlight on key events and relationships in his life. The show is rich with circus shenanigans and spectacular set pieces, yet at the heart of the show are the relationships between P.T. Barnum and his charges.
Celinde brings her European charms to the role of the opera singer Lind – the “Swedish Nightingale” – who enchanted Barnum enough for him to offer her an unprecedented $1,000-a-night contract. In the show, the impresario becomes smitten by her and, despite his marriage to Charity (played at the Menier by Laura Pitt-Pulford), follows her on a USA-wide tour…
On the eve of Barnum’s technical rehearsal, Celinde took 20 minutes out to talk about the production to Musical Theatre Review’s Craig Glenday, her experiences working with the show’s director Gordon Greenberg and MD Alex Parker, and her track record as a musical theatre star.
How have rehearsals gone?
Well, it’s been mental! It’s been an absolutely amazing process because of the circus acts that come along with it, and because it’s going to be in a tiny space. It’s been so rewarding and lovely, to be honest with you. No stress, which is pretty amazing. So far it’s been really nice and everyone’s been working really hard.
Did you know the show beforehand?
I didn’t know it at all. I knew it existed but I didn’t know it, so I got the script in and I read it and I thought: “Oh my god, this is going to be amazing!” And I did some research. I didn’t know who Jenny Lind was, so I looked into her. Now that I know about her and the show, I’m like: “How the hell did I not know this before?!”
In rehearsal for Barnum. Pictures: Nobby Clark
Do you ever feel intimidated by the performers who’ve come before you in your roles?
As a performer, you need to not think about that. The same goes for all these other shows that I’ve done and that have been around for a while. If you start to think about who’s done it before and who’s going to come watch you, then you can paralyse yourself.
With Barnum, we’re really focused on our version and I can’t imagine doing it any differently than how we’re doing it, which I think is a really good sign. Everyone’s so invested in it as well. Everyone puts their own stamp on the roles and we get the freedom in that, which is lovely.
How is such a big show like Barnum going to fit into a small space like the Menier?
That’s what’s exciting about this show, especially because of the circus artists. That’s what I’m calling them but they’re also dancers and actors. Until recently, we’ve all been rehearsing in the space above the Chocolate Factory so we we haven’t had the height that we’d normally have. So you see these amazing artists on the sides doing their thing, or marking what they’re doing, but it’s only when we got into the big space that we could see how incredible they are.
I saw a bit of the run-through and my eyes fell out of my head because you think: it’s a tiny space and you can’’t really do very much in it. But these people just adjust their routines… You can do everything you want in it!
And it’s right before your eyes…
Yes! I went to a circus ages ago when I was young and I remember really having to squint my eyes to see what they were doing but here at the Chocolate Factory, it’s in your face. It’s still the same, but it’s just one metre away from you. You see the sweat dripping off them… it’s really cool.
I don’t think I’ve seen a bad show at the Menier…
No, they’re so inventive with the space. On the very first day, they showed us the design for the show and straight away, you got the vibe. It’s got the intimacy that you want for it, because if you make it really big, you can lose those special moments between Barnum and Charity.
Have you worked with any of the creatives before?
Alex Parker, the musical director, is a friend of mine. I worked with him on Les Mis, so there’s a trust there straight away, which is really nice. Straight away you can get to: “Okay, how are we going to do this? What do you want to do with the role?”
There’s just lots of freedom in it and that’s something that I’m really enjoying at the moment – there’s a lot of air around the role so I can play with it, I can do what I want to do. They let you develop that and if it goes into something, then great.
Obviously the show is about P.T. Barnum, but what is it ultimately saying to us?
I was thinking a lot about this because I knew I was going to speak with you. What I think is so amazing about the show is that it celebrates authenticity. Everyone in the ensemble has their own skills, and they’re giving their full energy to it. The choreography is awesome, but some are doing backflips, some do stuff with fire, some juggle… That’s really difficult, by the way, juggling! As a company, we celebrate being different, and that’s really beautiful.
Celinde Schoenmaker and Marcus Brigstocke in rehearsal for Barnum at the Menier Chocolate Factory
This is then mirrored in the story. You have people who are different, like the shortest man, Tom Thumb, and Joice [Heth] – the oldest woman alive. In that time, they’re considered freaks and sideshow acts but Barnum makes them classy. He renames Tom as General Thumb, for example.
Harry Francis, who plays Tom, looked it up and told me that in the real story about Barnum, Barnum gets into a debt and Tom actually buys him out of that debt. There’s a real love between Barnum and the acts. He wasn’t just someone who was making tonnes of money off them. Just like, for example, Jenny Lind, the role that I’m playing. She made a load of money by touring for Barnum and I think she donated the $350,000 she earned from him to a charity.
So, there are some really cool background stories about all these characters in the show, which makes it, for an actress, really cool to play. I can find some depth – I’m not just a character that steals the leading man away from Charity, I’m a real person.
Did you research Jenny Lind, then? Did you look into her character and background?
Oh yes.! She’s a typical soprano, with affairs and everything, especially in that time. In the show, it’s a heightened version, of course. She needs to be a real character; she needs to have something to her, so she’s not just sweet. So it was very interesting to be able to read about her whole background. She came all the way from Sweden to America, and she spoke only Swedish. She’s like: “Why would I speak American?” There’s funny things to be found in that. It’s really lovely to have that kind of research behind your characters because they were real.
You’ve got a great supporting cast as well. How is Marcus Brigstocke coping with the challenge of this demanding title role?
He’s such a great guy. And such a real leading man, giving support to everyone. Barnum offers so much for the actors, and for Marcus the challenge is having to do his act on the high wire while singing! I know he’s been practising literally every night, and I know he’s going to nail it. Because he works so hard and he’s so good, everyone’s going to be so surprised with him. He’s amazing in the role. And so is Laura [Pitt-Pulford, as Charity].
You know what? They’re all super nice. They’re all investing in the company, so I really feel like we’re all pulling this off together. Thinking about it now, I’m just having fun. Just really having fun being around these people and having a good time together on that stage. This means we’re going to deliver the audience a great night!
For me, Barnum combines the joys of musical theatre and also the joys of circus – two great art forms together…
Exactly. And there’s so much respect for both forms as well. I mentioned earlier Kelsey and Preston [Jamieson] – two circus artists that are in the show – doing their flips and standing on top of each other. They’re married, so they’re super tuned into each other. They were doing their stuff for the first time in the high room and everyone was just standing there with their eyes wide open. They needed to count if they were going to make it to do the routine afterwards, and when they made it, everyone just burst out screaming. It was so exciting.
I’m thinking: “How can you not like this show?” If you don’t like singing, you’ll like the circus. If you don’t like the circus, you’ll like the acting. If you don’t like the acting, you’ll like the dancing. So yeah, it’s great – it has everything!
How does working on this show compare to some of the bigger, more established shows like Phantom?
Here in England, I’ve done long-running shows, so you know what you’re getting into. With Phantom, I remember seeing the show and thinking: “Okay, I’ve got an overview, I have everything in my head, this is how it’s going to happen.” But Barnum is way more work-in-progress. I have to get used to the fact that, when something doesn’t work, we can go: “What about if I walk there and then turn around and then say this, will it work more for the character?’ And great Gordon then goes: “Yeah, I think that’s a great idea.” He loves when we all put our ideas in there and he loves it when we’re making stuff work. It’s really nice to do that.
Listen, I love Phantom and I love Les Mis and there’s something really nice about going into a show and clicking into it and making sure it works. It’s been directed before and there’s something nice about that. But as a creative person, this [Barnum] is the dream. You’re making something from scratch. I really feel like never, ever has Gordon said: “Oh, well, what they did in a previous production was…” or “What I’ve seen before is…” Never. For us, it’s just a blank page and what works in that space. I think people are going to be surprised. I actually want cameras on people’s faces during the show so I can see their reactions!
How was it for you playing in these classic West End shows, Les Mis and Phantom?
Oh man, I still feel weird thinking that I’ve played these parts. I don’t know. When you come from Holland… Sometimes I just remember sitting there, thinking: “That’s never going to happen. Why would they hire me?” or something like that. But then it happens and you just go into this super mode and you think… “I’m just going, going, going.”
Only now that I’m out of it – it’s been two months now since I’ve done my last Christine – am I realising that it actually happened! I feel really lucky to have done it. This the first time that I’ve thought about it, but those are iconic roles that I really wanted to do. When you’’re younger, you think: “I can die when I’ve done Fantine” and then I did Fantine and I was saying: “I can die when I’ve done Christine.” I don’t want to die yet!
What other roles do you have your eye on in the future?
I love originating stuff, so I would love to find an original story [to develop]. I’m writing with my boyfriend Rich at the moment, and we actually performed a gig with our own music for the first time, so that’’s really exciting me. I don’t necessarily have a big show where thinking: “Oh, that’s something I still really want to do,” because literally Fantine and Christine were the ones where I was saying: “Well, that’s never going to happen but I would love to do them.”
What was the gig, out of interest?
It’s called MakerMan and it was in L’Escargot [in Soho]. It’s mostly the stuff that we’ve been writing these past three months. It’s a bit country, a bit jazzy – really a step away from a musical.
Where do your tastes lie in terms of music? If you were going to see a musical yourself, would you go big or are you trying to see new material all the time?
New material, definitely. I think I’ve seen all the big ones. I love what the Chocolate Factory does, so that’s a real tick off my list because I really wanted to work there. If I hadn’t been in Barnum, Barnum would be a show I’d want to see because I want to sit close up to actors and see what’s going on.
I went to see Glengarry Glen Ross recently and oh my goodness! We were sitting on the third row and you could literally see the sweat dripping off their faces. I just thought: ”Oh my god, that’s stuff that I want to do.”
Celinde Schoenmaker, Michael Ball and Nadim Naaman at the 30th anniversary of the West End production of The Phantom of the Opera at Her Majesty’s Theatre. Picture: Dan Wooller
Do you have an interest in doing straight acting roles as well?
One hundred per cent! It’s hard when you’re from overseas because I have to, obviously, think about my accent. I do accent lessons and everything like that, but when your name is Schoenmaker, you’re not going to be playing an English rose!
I’m usually either German or Russian or whatever. But, I love it and I love going to see plays. There’s a side of myself that I still really want to develop, so hopefully my career will slowly but surely go in that direction.
Are you planning on staying in Brexit Britain?
You know what? I love England and I’ve always had a love for it. I studied here for a year and I always said: “I would love to live in London, but I don’t know if I could ever work there…” Then it all happened naturally. I live here, I have a house, and I’ve been together with Rich for a long time, so I feel like this is really my home now.
Even with Brexit and everything that’s happening, I’ve always felt really welcome in London and have amazing friends that are really welcoming. I feel very listened to and I don’t ever feel like someone doesn’t want me to audition because I’m foreign or anything, so I feel really welcome.
Well, you are very welcome – please stay and continue to give us more wonderful performances!
www.menierchocolatefactory.com
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